Discussion:
Is Toilet Water Cleaner Than The Ice In Your Drink...???
(too old to reply)
Gregory Morrow
2007-12-02 20:13:09 UTC
Permalink
Now THIS will make ya hurl, kids...:


http://www.suntimes.com/lifestyles/health/677348,CST-NWS-ice02.article#

Hold the ice: What's in your glass might surprise you

COLD TRUTH | 'Someone's not washing their hands properly': 1 in 5 samples
from restaurants, bars found to have high levels of bacteria

December 2, 2007

BY ART GOLAB AND LEONARD N. FLEMING

Chicago _Sun - Times_

Next time you go out to eat or to a bar, it might be a good idea to say,
"Hold the ice."

"In a test of ice cubes from 49 fast-food and casual-dining restaurants and
hotel bars in the city and suburbs, the Chicago Sun-Times found that more
than one of every five samples contained high levels of bacteria.

» Click to enlarge image In a test of ice cubes from 49 eateries in the city
and suburbs, more than one of every five samples contained high levels of
bacteria.

Samples taken at three of the restaurants contained an undetermined amount
of fecal coliform, according to the findings of a government-certified
laboratory that performed tests on the samples for the newspaper.

By comparison, a water sample taken from a toilet in a men's room at the
Sun-Times tested cleaner than the ice obtained at 21 of the restaurants and
bars.


11 score worst

Drinking-water standards set by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency
mandate average levels of less than one colony of coliform bacteria per
milliliter.

Still, bacteria -- even fecal coliform -- aren't necessarily dangerous for
most people. But they can lead to illness, experts say, especially among
those who are very old or young,

Some highlights of the newspaper's findings:

. . Ice from 11 restaurants or bars had high levels of
"total coliform bacteria" -- more than 200 bacteria colonies per milliliter
tested. These included an Applebee's at 7519 S. Cicero, a Chipotle Mexican
Grill at 10 S. LaSalle, a Starbucks at 444 N. Michigan, Asiago Express at
176 N. Wells, an Outback Steakhouse at 216 E. Golf Rd. in Schaumburg, a
Burger King at 6950 S. Pulaski, a Caribou Coffee at 3025 N. Clark, Rock
Bottom Restaurant and Brewery at 1 W. Grand, and the bars at three high-end
hotels -- the Drake Hotel at 140 E. Walton, the Hyatt Regency Chicago at 151
E. Wacker and the Sheraton Chicago at 301 E. North Water.

. . Representatives of most of those said they adhere to all
recommended sanitary practices, several said they had taken additional steps
in response to the Sun-Times' findings, and several noted they routinely
pass health inspections. Ice, though, usually isn't tested by the Chicago
Health Department. Few health departments test ice because of the expense.

. . Ten establishments had lower levels of total coliform
bacteria -- fewer than 200 colonies per milliliter.

. . Nearly all of the ice tested that came from self-serve
ice machines had low levels of bacteria or none at all.

. . Hotel lobby bars, where ice is often transported by and
handled by multiple people, didn't test as well: Three of four bars tested
had ice with high levels of bacteria.

. . Twenty-eight of the 49 samples showed no bacteria at
all.

The findings shouldn't alarm people, experts said.

"It's not like you'll see people dropping over dead or huge numbers getting
sick because it's going to take just the right bacteria and the right person
to make them ill," said Penn State University's Brian Swistock, co-author of
the university's publication "Water Tests: What Do the Numbers Mean?"


'Would be a problem'

But high bacteria levels such as those found in some of the ice cube samples
might help explain some of the stomach ills people get, according to
Swistock and others.

"The illnesses are very nondescript," he said. "They might just be a
flu-like symptom, a little bit of nausea, a slight fever -- something that a
lot of people would write off as just being a bug that they got."

In any amount, though, the presence of fecal coliform bacteria -- as the
tests found at three restaurants -- "would be a problem," according to
Frances Guichard, director of food protection at the Chicago Health
Department.

"It means that obviously someone's not washing their hands properly, and
there's fecal mater," Guichard said. "If there's enough, it can make someone
sick."

And the more the ice comes in contact with people, the more likely it is to
become contaminated with bacteria, according to Mary Troken, director of the
food service sanitation program at Harold Washington College, one of the
City Colleges of Chicago.

"Ice, whether we all realize it or not, is really food, and it's very
mishandled," said Troken, a registered dietitian.

"If you've got someone who did not wash their hands properly, they might
have touched raw foods or gone to the washroom, and now they're touching the
ice; those are opportunities for the bacteria to get transferred to the
ice."


A snapshot

In the Sun-Times' tests, reporters ordered drinks with ice on the side or
got the ice from self-serve machines. Taking care not to touch the ice and
potentially contaminate it, they then transferred the cubes to sterile
containers. The melted water from the ice cubes was tested the same day by
Suburban Laboratories of Hillside, which is certified by the EPA.

For each sample, the lab counted the number of bacterial colonies and
determined whether fecal coliform bacteria were present.

The tests offered a snapshot -- of the particular ice cubes that were tested
on the particular day the samples were taken.

The testing did not follow all EPA protocols, which would include repeat
testing. Still, experts said it would be highly unlikely to get bacteria
readings of "too numerous to count" by contamination introduced in the
testing process.

In response to the test results, representatives of the restaurants and bars
where the ice cubes showed high levels of bacteria said they were taking the
findings seriously, even as some questioned them.

"Although we question the methodology," a Rock Bottom spokesman said, "we
did take immediate -- voluntary and precautionary -- steps to address the
situation. All ice machines in the building were drained and thoroughly
sanitized, and we retrained our staff regarding the proper handling of ice."


Health, safety 'a priority'

An Applebee's spokesman said: "The health and safety of our guests is a
priority. We have taken the necessary steps to ensure our ice-making and
water-supply systems are clean and sanitized."

A Starbucks spokesman said: "Starbucks policy requires that each store
undertake regular, thorough cleanings of their ice machines and ice bins. On
a daily basis, ice machines and ice bins are thoroughly wiped down with
sanitization solutions that kill bacteria and viruses. On a monthly basis,
the machines and bins are completely disassembled and fully cleaned and
sanitized from top to bottom."

Additionally, the spokesman said that, though an inspection it commissioned
"found no evidence of issues associated with the ice or ice machine, we
worked closely with the store involved in the investigation to ensure that
they immediately conducted an additional, thorough, top-to-bottom cleaning
of their ice container."


</>
Cydrome Leader
2007-12-02 22:44:43 UTC
Permalink
In chi.eats Gregory Morrow <***@mercycroft.com> wrote:

ice machines are just fucking nasty to start with.

ever look inside one?
Post by Gregory Morrow
http://www.suntimes.com/lifestyles/health/677348,CST-NWS-ice02.article#
Hold the ice: What's in your glass might surprise you
COLD TRUTH | 'Someone's not washing their hands properly': 1 in 5 samples
from restaurants, bars found to have high levels of bacteria
December 2, 2007
BY ART GOLAB AND LEONARD N. FLEMING
Chicago _Sun - Times_
Next time you go out to eat or to a bar, it might be a good idea to say,
"Hold the ice."
"In a test of ice cubes from 49 fast-food and casual-dining restaurants and
hotel bars in the city and suburbs, the Chicago Sun-Times found that more
than one of every five samples contained high levels of bacteria.
? Click to enlarge image In a test of ice cubes from 49 eateries in the city
and suburbs, more than one of every five samples contained high levels of
bacteria.
Samples taken at three of the restaurants contained an undetermined amount
of fecal coliform, according to the findings of a government-certified
laboratory that performed tests on the samples for the newspaper.
By comparison, a water sample taken from a toilet in a men's room at the
Sun-Times tested cleaner than the ice obtained at 21 of the restaurants and
bars.
11 score worst
Drinking-water standards set by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency
mandate average levels of less than one colony of coliform bacteria per
milliliter.
Still, bacteria -- even fecal coliform -- aren't necessarily dangerous for
most people. But they can lead to illness, experts say, especially among
those who are very old or young,
. . Ice from 11 restaurants or bars had high levels of
"total coliform bacteria" -- more than 200 bacteria colonies per milliliter
tested. These included an Applebee's at 7519 S. Cicero, a Chipotle Mexican
Grill at 10 S. LaSalle, a Starbucks at 444 N. Michigan, Asiago Express at
176 N. Wells, an Outback Steakhouse at 216 E. Golf Rd. in Schaumburg, a
Burger King at 6950 S. Pulaski, a Caribou Coffee at 3025 N. Clark, Rock
Bottom Restaurant and Brewery at 1 W. Grand, and the bars at three high-end
hotels -- the Drake Hotel at 140 E. Walton, the Hyatt Regency Chicago at 151
E. Wacker and the Sheraton Chicago at 301 E. North Water.
. . Representatives of most of those said they adhere to all
recommended sanitary practices, several said they had taken additional steps
in response to the Sun-Times' findings, and several noted they routinely
pass health inspections. Ice, though, usually isn't tested by the Chicago
Health Department. Few health departments test ice because of the expense.
. . Ten establishments had lower levels of total coliform
bacteria -- fewer than 200 colonies per milliliter.
. . Nearly all of the ice tested that came from self-serve
ice machines had low levels of bacteria or none at all.
. . Hotel lobby bars, where ice is often transported by and
handled by multiple people, didn't test as well: Three of four bars tested
had ice with high levels of bacteria.
. . Twenty-eight of the 49 samples showed no bacteria at
all.
The findings shouldn't alarm people, experts said.
"It's not like you'll see people dropping over dead or huge numbers getting
sick because it's going to take just the right bacteria and the right person
to make them ill," said Penn State University's Brian Swistock, co-author of
the university's publication "Water Tests: What Do the Numbers Mean?"
'Would be a problem'
But high bacteria levels such as those found in some of the ice cube samples
might help explain some of the stomach ills people get, according to
Swistock and others.
"The illnesses are very nondescript," he said. "They might just be a
flu-like symptom, a little bit of nausea, a slight fever -- something that a
lot of people would write off as just being a bug that they got."
In any amount, though, the presence of fecal coliform bacteria -- as the
tests found at three restaurants -- "would be a problem," according to
Frances Guichard, director of food protection at the Chicago Health
Department.
"It means that obviously someone's not washing their hands properly, and
there's fecal mater," Guichard said. "If there's enough, it can make someone
sick."
And the more the ice comes in contact with people, the more likely it is to
become contaminated with bacteria, according to Mary Troken, director of the
food service sanitation program at Harold Washington College, one of the
City Colleges of Chicago.
"Ice, whether we all realize it or not, is really food, and it's very
mishandled," said Troken, a registered dietitian.
"If you've got someone who did not wash their hands properly, they might
have touched raw foods or gone to the washroom, and now they're touching the
ice; those are opportunities for the bacteria to get transferred to the
ice."
A snapshot
In the Sun-Times' tests, reporters ordered drinks with ice on the side or
got the ice from self-serve machines. Taking care not to touch the ice and
potentially contaminate it, they then transferred the cubes to sterile
containers. The melted water from the ice cubes was tested the same day by
Suburban Laboratories of Hillside, which is certified by the EPA.
For each sample, the lab counted the number of bacterial colonies and
determined whether fecal coliform bacteria were present.
The tests offered a snapshot -- of the particular ice cubes that were tested
on the particular day the samples were taken.
The testing did not follow all EPA protocols, which would include repeat
testing. Still, experts said it would be highly unlikely to get bacteria
readings of "too numerous to count" by contamination introduced in the
testing process.
In response to the test results, representatives of the restaurants and bars
where the ice cubes showed high levels of bacteria said they were taking the
findings seriously, even as some questioned them.
"Although we question the methodology," a Rock Bottom spokesman said, "we
did take immediate -- voluntary and precautionary -- steps to address the
situation. All ice machines in the building were drained and thoroughly
sanitized, and we retrained our staff regarding the proper handling of ice."
Health, safety 'a priority'
An Applebee's spokesman said: "The health and safety of our guests is a
priority. We have taken the necessary steps to ensure our ice-making and
water-supply systems are clean and sanitized."
A Starbucks spokesman said: "Starbucks policy requires that each store
undertake regular, thorough cleanings of their ice machines and ice bins. On
a daily basis, ice machines and ice bins are thoroughly wiped down with
sanitization solutions that kill bacteria and viruses. On a monthly basis,
the machines and bins are completely disassembled and fully cleaned and
sanitized from top to bottom."
Additionally, the spokesman said that, though an inspection it commissioned
"found no evidence of issues associated with the ice or ice machine, we
worked closely with the store involved in the investigation to ensure that
they immediately conducted an additional, thorough, top-to-bottom cleaning
of their ice container."
</>
Wayne Boatwright
2007-12-03 01:40:33 UTC
Permalink
Oh pshaw, on Sun 02 Dec 2007 03:44:43p, Cydrome Leader meant to say...
Post by Cydrome Leader
ice machines are just fucking nasty to start with.
ever look inside one?
That certainly can be true. At the company I work for we have a semi-
comercial kitchen setting in each of the break rooms on our two floors.
Each has an ice machine in it. We have a service that comes out monthly
that thoroughly cleans and sanitizes the ice machines. Our ice machines,
coffee makers, and chilled and hot water dispensiers are all fed by water
from R/O filteres.

Wayne
Dee.Dee
2007-12-03 02:11:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Wayne Boatwright
Oh pshaw, on Sun 02 Dec 2007 03:44:43p, Cydrome Leader meant to say...
Post by Cydrome Leader
ice machines are just fucking nasty to start with.
ever look inside one?
That certainly can be true. At the company I work for we have a semi-
comercial kitchen setting in each of the break rooms on our two floors.
Each has an ice machine in it. We have a service that comes out monthly
that thoroughly cleans and sanitizes the ice machines. Our ice machines,
coffee makers, and chilled and hot water dispensiers are all fed by water
from R/O filteres.
Wayne
Not even hinting that the R/O filters are not kept clean, especially on such
a large scale organization.
We've used them for them at least 10 years, and we have a schedule for
replacement. I've read that even the R/O filters can be suspect.

As for not ordering ice in restaurants, I always ask for 'no ice.' Have for
many years.
Wonder if they go to the men's room to grab that glass full ;-))
Dee Dee
Wayne Boatwright
2007-12-03 03:09:43 UTC
Permalink
Oh pshaw, on Sun 02 Dec 2007 07:11:18p, Dee.Dee meant to say...
Post by Dee.Dee
Post by Wayne Boatwright
Oh pshaw, on Sun 02 Dec 2007 03:44:43p, Cydrome Leader meant to say...
Post by Cydrome Leader
ice machines are just fucking nasty to start with.
ever look inside one?
That certainly can be true. At the company I work for we have a semi-
comercial kitchen setting in each of the break rooms on our two floors.
Each has an ice machine in it. We have a service that comes out
monthly that thoroughly cleans and sanitizes the ice machines. Our ice
machines, coffee makers, and chilled and hot water dispensiers are all
fed by water from R/O filteres.
Wayne
Not even hinting that the R/O filters are not kept clean, especially on
such a large scale organization.
We've used them for them at least 10 years, and we have a schedule for
replacement. I've read that even the R/O filters can be suspect.
I don't know the mainenance schedule for the R/O filters, but if it's
anything like the maintenance that everything else receives, it's with
sufficient frequency to keep them from being suspect.
Post by Dee.Dee
As for not ordering ice in restaurants, I always ask for 'no ice.' Have
for many years.
Wonder if they go to the men's room to grab that glass full ;-))
Dee Dee
Depends on whom they're serving. :-)
--
Wayne Boatwright

Date: Sun, 12(XII)/2(II)/2007(MMVII)

*******************************************
Today is: First Sunday of Advent
Countdown 'til Christmas
3wks 4hrs
*******************************************
We're lost but we're making good time.
*******************************************
Dee.Dee
2007-12-03 03:32:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Wayne Boatwright
Post by Dee.Dee
As for not ordering ice in restaurants, I always ask for 'no ice.' Have
for many years.
Wonder if they go to the men's room to grab that glass full ;-))
Dee Dee
Depends on whom they're serving. :-)
--
Wayne Boatwright
LOL!
dd
Sheldon
2007-12-03 03:57:19 UTC
Permalink
ice machines are just fucking nasty to start with... ever look inside one?
Are you kidding... I was married to one.
Gregory Morrow
2007-12-03 04:43:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sheldon
ice machines are just fucking nasty to start with... ever look inside one?
Are you kidding... I was married to one.
Lol...


--
Best
Greg
Wayne Boatwright
2007-12-03 04:46:26 UTC
Permalink
Oh pshaw, on Sun 02 Dec 2007 09:43:30p, Gregory Morrow meant to say...
Post by Gregory Morrow
Post by Sheldon
ice machines are just fucking nasty to start with... ever look inside one?
Are you kidding... I was married to one.
Lol...
--
Best
Greg
Priceless!
--
Wayne Boatwright

Date: Sunday, December 2nd,2007

*******************************************
Today is: First Sunday of Advent
Countdown 'til Christmas
3wks 2hrs 15mins
*******************************************
Buy a Pentium Pro 200 so you can
reboot faster.
jmcquown
2007-12-02 23:43:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gregory Morrow
http://www.suntimes.com/lifestyles/health/677348,CST-NWS-ice02.article#
Hold the ice: What's in your glass might surprise you
COLD TRUTH | 'Someone's not washing their hands properly': 1 in 5
samples from restaurants, bars found to have high levels of bacteria
I don't understand this. Ice in a restaurant is is made by a machine. Ice
is place into glasses via an ice scoop. While I certainly believe too many
people don't wash their hands, I sincerely doubt they are grabbing ice with
their bare hands to fill glasses.
Gregory Morrow
2007-12-02 23:55:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by jmcquown
Post by Gregory Morrow
http://www.suntimes.com/lifestyles/health/677348,CST-NWS-ice02.article#
Hold the ice: What's in your glass might surprise you
COLD TRUTH | 'Someone's not washing their hands properly': 1 in 5
samples from restaurants, bars found to have high levels of bacteria
I don't understand this. Ice in a restaurant is is made by a machine. Ice
is place into glasses via an ice scoop. While I certainly believe too many
people don't wash their hands, I sincerely doubt they are grabbing ice with
their bare hands to fill glasses.
Most of the grunt work in these establishments is done by uneducated
immigrants who (despite "training") remain fairly unaware of basic
hygiene practices...

The ice machines themselves can be dirty...

Anyways, when humans are involved in the process, there is bound to be
some sort of "slip - up" at times...how many times have I seen a
bartender or whoever grab a piece of ice and throw it in a glass? Too
many times to count...

Also, I've seen in many places that ice is made in a machine and then
hauled to the bar stations in buckets...that additional handling step
can be another vector for germs.


--
Best
Greg
s***@gmail.com
2007-12-03 00:03:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gregory Morrow
Post by jmcquown
Post by Gregory Morrow
http://www.suntimes.com/lifestyles/health/677348,CST-NWS-ice02.article#
Hold the ice: What's in your glass might surprise you
COLD TRUTH | 'Someone's not washing their hands properly': 1 in 5
samples from restaurants, bars found to have high levels of bacteria
I don't understand this. Ice in a restaurant is is made by a machine. Ice
is place into glasses via an ice scoop. While I certainly believe too many
people don't wash their hands, I sincerely doubt they are grabbing ice with
their bare hands to fill glasses.
Most of the grunt work in these establishments is done by uneducated
immigrants who (despite "training") remain fairly unaware of basic
hygiene practices...
The ice machines themselves can be dirty...
Anyways, when humans are involved in the process, there is bound to be
some sort of "slip - up" at times...how many times have I seen a
bartender or whoever grab a piece of ice and throw it in a glass? Too
many times to count...
Also, I've seen in many places that ice is made in a machine and then
hauled to the bar stations in buckets...that additional handling step
can be another vector for germs.
I always boil my ice for five minutes to kill any bacteria.
Wayne Boatwright
2007-12-03 01:42:17 UTC
Permalink
Oh pshaw, on Sun 02 Dec 2007 05:03:12p, meant to say...
Post by s***@gmail.com
Post by Gregory Morrow
Post by jmcquown
Post by Gregory Morrow
http://www.suntimes.com/lifestyles/health/677348,CST-NWS-ice02.articl
e#
Hold the ice: What's in your glass might surprise you
COLD TRUTH | 'Someone's not washing their hands properly': 1 in 5
samples from restaurants, bars found to have high levels of bacteria
I don't understand this. Ice in a restaurant is is made by a
machine. Ice is place into glasses via an ice scoop. While I
certainly believe too many people don't wash their hands, I sincerely
doubt they are grabbing ice with their bare hands to fill glasses.
Most of the grunt work in these establishments is done by uneducated
immigrants who (despite "training") remain fairly unaware of basic
hygiene practices...
The ice machines themselves can be dirty...
Anyways, when humans are involved in the process, there is bound to be
some sort of "slip - up" at times...how many times have I seen a
bartender or whoever grab a piece of ice and throw it in a glass? Too
many times to count...
Also, I've seen in many places that ice is made in a machine and then
hauled to the bar stations in buckets...that additional handling step
can be another vector for germs.
I always boil my ice for five minutes to kill any bacteria.
This is, indeed, a wise move.,,especially if you like hot toddies.
--
Wayne Boatwright

Date: Sun, 12(XII)/2(II)/2007(MMVII)

*******************************************
Today is: First Sunday of Advent
Countdown 'til Christmas
3wks 5hrs 30mins
*******************************************
Mars needs women.
*******************************************
Gregory Morrow
2007-12-03 02:07:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Wayne Boatwright
Oh pshaw, on Sun 02 Dec 2007 05:03:12p, meant to say...
Post by s***@gmail.com
Post by Gregory Morrow
Post by jmcquown
Post by Gregory Morrow
http://www.suntimes.com/lifestyles/health/677348,CST-NWS-ice02.articl
e#
Hold the ice: What's in your glass might surprise you
COLD TRUTH | 'Someone's not washing their hands properly': 1 in 5
samples from restaurants, bars found to have high levels of bacteria
I don't understand this. Ice in a restaurant is is made by a
machine. Ice is place into glasses via an ice scoop. While I
certainly believe too many people don't wash their hands, I sincerely
doubt they are grabbing ice with their bare hands to fill glasses.
Most of the grunt work in these establishments is done by uneducated
immigrants who (despite "training") remain fairly unaware of basic
hygiene practices...
The ice machines themselves can be dirty...
Anyways, when humans are involved in the process, there is bound to be
some sort of "slip - up" at times...how many times have I seen a
bartender or whoever grab a piece of ice and throw it in a glass? Too
many times to count...
Also, I've seen in many places that ice is made in a machine and then
hauled to the bar stations in buckets...that additional handling step
can be another vector for germs.
I always boil my ice for five minutes to kill any bacteria.
This is, indeed, a wise move.,,especially if you like hot toddies.
Hmm...I see a new appliance: a sterile ice maker that incorporates a
microwave to boil the water and then freezing elements to make the
ice...

Don't laff, I bet it'd sell...people buy all sortsa stupid stuff.

There is a "Margarita Maker" at one of the home stores I visited
recently, it goes for around $379.00. I asked one of the workers if
they sell any: "More than you'd think", was the reply...


--
Best
Greg
Sheldon
2007-12-03 04:18:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gregory Morrow
Oh pshaw, on Sun 02 Dec 2007 05:03:12p, �meant to say...
Post by s***@gmail.com
Post by Gregory Morrow
Post by Gregory Morrow
http://www.suntimes.com/lifestyles/health/677348,CST-NWS-ice02.articl
e#
Hold the ice: What's in your glass might surprise you
COLD TRUTH | 'Someone's not washing their hands properly': 1 in 5
samples from restaurants, bars found to have high levels of bacteria
I don't understand this. �Ice in a restaurant is is made by a
machine. �Ice is place into glasses via an ice scoop. �While I
certainly believe too many people don't wash their hands, I sincerely
doubt they are grabbing ice with their bare hands to fill glasses.
Most of the grunt work in these establishments is done by uneducated
immigrants who (despite "training") remain fairly unaware of basic
hygiene practices...
The ice machines themselves can be dirty...
Anyways, when humans are involved in the process, there is bound to be
some sort of "slip - up" at times...how many times have I seen a
bartender or whoever grab a piece of ice and throw it in a glass? �Too
many times to count...
Also, I've seen in many places that ice is made in a machine and then
hauled to the bar stations in buckets...that additional handling step
can be another vector for germs.
I always boil my ice for five minutes to kill any bacteria.
This is, indeed, a wise move.,,especially if you like hot toddies.
Hmm...I see a new appliance: a sterile ice maker that incorporates a
microwave to boil the water and then freezing elements to make the
ice...
Don't laff, I bet it'd sell...people buy all sortsa stupid stuff.
Not stupid stuff...

The water in my house is treated by a UV lamp.

http://www.triangularwave.com/f3.htm


HEPA filters are good but not enough... I also have a UV device
installed in my A/C system, all the air in my house is constantly
filtered and sterilized.

http://www.iaqsource.com/uv_duct_lamps.php


Sheldon
Sheldon
2007-12-03 04:33:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by s***@gmail.com
I always boil my ice for five minutes to kill any bacteria.
That's just silly... I always soak my ice cubes in vodka.
Sheldon
2007-12-03 17:54:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gregory Morrow
Post by Gregory Morrow
http://www.suntimes.com/lifestyles/health/677348,CST-NWS-ice02.article#
Hold the ice: What's in your glass might surprise you
COLD TRUTH | 'Someone's not washing their hands properly': 1 in 5
samples from restaurants, bars found to have high levels of bacteria
I don't understand this. �Ice in a restaurant is is made by a machine. �Ice
is place into glasses via an ice scoop. �While I certainly believe too many
people don't wash their hands, I sincerely doubt they are grabbing ice with
their bare hands to fill glasses.
Most of the grunt work in these establishments is done by uneducated
immigrants who (despite "training") remain fairly unaware of basic
hygiene practices...
The ice machines themselves can be dirty...
Anyways, when humans are involved in the process, there is bound to be
some sort of "slip - up" at times...how many times have I seen a
bartender or whoever grab a piece of ice and throw it in a glass? �Too
many times to count...
Also, I've seen in many places that ice is made in a machine and then
hauled to the bar stations in buckets...that additional handling step
can be another vector for germs.
--
Best
Greg
These days ice dispensers are used to fill glasses... very few
businesses are still scooping drink ice. And there is nothing new
about the concept... cold drink vending machines have contained ice
dispensers for nigh on fifty years now... often the ice, the syrup,
and the carbonated water was dispensed perfectly but the machine would
forget the cup, so I suppose you can say it was so automated that it
drank it for you too.

And many of these machines now employ UV lamps... all food businesses
are more and more installing UV treatment equipment for water.
Everyone should install a UV treatment system for their home, the cost
is negligible, certainly less than a year's supply of bottled water...
and it continously treats all water used in the home at the same low
price, energy costs the price of using a 60w bulb, especially
important to treat is water used for bathing, hand washing, tooth
brushing, and of course drinking. I have no idea why intelligent folks
buy bottled water, it's ridiculously costly and isn't any better
quality than what comes from the corner gas station hose bib...
bottled water is not sterile water.. those chic name brands is
actually filthy water.... you're paying mostly for transporting, and
advertising, and of course the plastic bottles that also fercockt the
planet. Most people can install and maintain the UV water treatment
equipment themselves... the only costly part is replacing the UV lamp
once a year, costs about $40... all the water used in your house
treated for about 5 cents a day.

Sheldon
Geoff Gass
2007-12-03 21:45:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sheldon
These days ice dispensers are used to fill glasses... very few
businesses are still scooping drink ice. And there is nothing new
about the concept... cold drink vending machines have contained ice
dispensers for nigh on fifty years now... often the ice, the syrup,
and the carbonated water was dispensed perfectly but the machine would
forget the cup, so I suppose you can say it was so automated that it
drank it for you too.
you live in the suburbs or in some place where everything is new.
Lou Decruss
2007-12-03 23:36:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Geoff Gass
Post by Sheldon
These days ice dispensers are used to fill glasses... very few
businesses are still scooping drink ice. And there is nothing new
about the concept... cold drink vending machines have contained ice
dispensers for nigh on fifty years now... often the ice, the syrup,
and the carbonated water was dispensed perfectly but the machine would
forget the cup, so I suppose you can say it was so automated that it
drank it for you too.
you live in the suburbs or in some place where everything is new.
Yep. He lives in Pleasantview.
s***@gmail.com
2007-12-04 04:58:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Geoff Gass
Post by Sheldon
These days ice dispensers are used to fill glasses... very few
businesses are still scooping drink ice. And there is nothing new
about the concept... cold drink vending machines have contained ice
dispensers for nigh on fifty years now... often the ice, the syrup,
and the carbonated water was dispensed perfectly but the machine would
forget the cup, so I suppose you can say it was so automated that it
drank it for you too.
you live in the suburbs or in some place where everything is new.
The people who work at my suburban taqueria fill the coke dispenser
from a bucket full of ice.
Goomba38
2007-12-03 00:40:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by jmcquown
I don't understand this. Ice in a restaurant is is made by a machine. Ice
is place into glasses via an ice scoop. While I certainly believe too many
people don't wash their hands, I sincerely doubt they are grabbing ice with
their bare hands to fill glasses.
At my hospital we have a McDonald's (yeah, I know...) and I've watched
them load ice into the beverage dispenser by the bucket load. Some young
guy climbs up and dumps huge buckets of it into the top of the dispenser.
tert in seattle
2007-12-03 04:46:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Goomba38
Post by jmcquown
I don't understand this. Ice in a restaurant is is made by a machine. Ice
is place into glasses via an ice scoop. While I certainly believe too many
people don't wash their hands, I sincerely doubt they are grabbing ice with
their bare hands to fill glasses.
At my hospital we have a McDonald's (yeah, I know...) and I've watched
them load ice into the beverage dispenser by the bucket load. Some young
guy climbs up and dumps huge buckets of it into the top of the dispenser.
I worked one day at a restaurant where I observed the following
procedure. 1. Take two buckets, one stacked inside the other,
down to the ice machine. 2. Place both buckets on the floor and
fill each of them with ice. 3. Carry the buckets back upstairs
and dump the ice into the place where it goes under the counter.
4. Set buckets on the floor, one stacked inside the other. This
method of contaminating the ice is only slightly more elaborate
than dropping the ice on the floor directly.
kenji
2007-12-03 15:58:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by tert in seattle
I worked one day at a restaurant
quit or fired?
s***@gmail.com
2007-12-03 16:59:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by kenji
Post by tert in seattle
I worked one day at a restaurant
quit or fired?
Could be Rent-a-Temp, too.
tert in seattle
2007-12-03 18:46:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by s***@gmail.com
Post by kenji
Post by tert in seattle
I worked one day at a restaurant
quit or fired?
Could be Rent-a-Temp, too.
or none of the above
kenji
2007-12-03 21:09:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by tert in seattle
Post by s***@gmail.com
Post by kenji
Post by tert in seattle
I worked one day at a restaurant
quit or fired?
Could be Rent-a-Temp, too.
or none of the above
you lied to us for comedic purposes?
Gregory Morrow
2007-12-04 00:02:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by kenji
Post by tert in seattle
Post by s***@gmail.com
Post by kenji
Post by tert in seattle
I worked one day at a restaurant
quit or fired?
Could be Rent-a-Temp, too.
or none of the above
you lied to us for comedic purposes?
Don't be doing yer "J'accuse!" shtick to TART, asshat...


--
Best
Greg
tert in seattle
2007-12-04 05:16:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by kenji
Post by tert in seattle
Post by s***@gmail.com
Post by kenji
Post by tert in seattle
I worked one day at a restaurant
quit or fired?
Could be Rent-a-Temp, too.
or none of the above
you lied to us for comedic purposes?
no sir

s***@gmail.com
2007-12-04 04:57:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by tert in seattle
Post by s***@gmail.com
Post by kenji
Post by tert in seattle
I worked one day at a restaurant
quit or fired?
Could be Rent-a-Temp, too.
or none of the above
To be sure. The world is not binary.
Cuthbert Thistlethwaite
2007-12-03 00:57:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by jmcquown
I don't understand this. Ice in a restaurant is is made by a machine. Ice
is place into glasses via an ice scoop. While I certainly believe too many
people don't wash their hands, I sincerely doubt they are grabbing ice with
their bare hands to fill glasses.
Sure, they could -- they might be using the glass itself as the scoop,
for instance, dragging their dirty hand through the ice in the process.

Note that the self-serve machines are not the problem. I assume that
means the machines which spit out ice cubes from a spout, which does not
allow the user to reach into the bin and fondle the ice cubes with his
hands.

This is all hand-to-mouth contamination going on here, and serves as a
reminder that some bad things are not killed by cold temps.

Quick refresher diagram:

any feces )
raw chicken ) ---> ( hand ) --> ( mouth )
other bad )
Cydrome Leader
2007-12-03 16:40:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by jmcquown
Post by Gregory Morrow
http://www.suntimes.com/lifestyles/health/677348,CST-NWS-ice02.article#
Hold the ice: What's in your glass might surprise you
COLD TRUTH | 'Someone's not washing their hands properly': 1 in 5
samples from restaurants, bars found to have high levels of bacteria
I don't understand this. Ice in a restaurant is is made by a machine. Ice
is place into glasses via an ice scoop. While I certainly believe too many
people don't wash their hands, I sincerely doubt they are grabbing ice with
their bare hands to fill glasses.
concept 1

ice machines are inherently filthy. They circulate water forever across a
plate or tray that's chilled.

Imagine a fish tank, but colder and with more hands going into it, and
less people cleaning it.

concept 2

a cup is the ice scoop is most situations. Even if there is an ice scoop,
the handle gets touched with a "hand" and then that gets tossed back onto
the bin.

And people are lazy and never clean stuff. Even those k-cup coffee
machines get fucking rank unless you strip them down. Soda fountains are
really bad.

Still, if you have an immune system, you should be good.
Sheldon
2007-12-03 17:16:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cydrome Leader
Post by Gregory Morrow
http://www.suntimes.com/lifestyles/health/677348,CST-NWS-ice02.article#
Hold the ice: What's in your glass might surprise you
COLD TRUTH | 'Someone's not washing their hands properly': 1 in 5
samples from restaurants, bars found to have high levels of bacteria
I don't understand this. �Ice in a restaurant is is made by a machine. �Ice
is place into glasses via an ice scoop. �While I certainly believe too many
people don't wash their hands, I sincerely doubt they are grabbing ice with
their bare hands to fill glasses.
concept 1
ice machines are inherently filthy.
Then what do folks do about the through the door chilled water and ice
maker on their home fridge.

I've never seen beverage glasses at fast food restaurants, they all
use paper disposables and they all have ice "dispensers"... in fact
most restaurants of all types nowadays use ice dispensers for drinks,
even booze bars. The most dangerous thing a bartender can do is to
scoop ice with the beverage glass, not germs, a bit of glass can chip
off... in fact a bar tender scooping ice with a glass is grounds for
instant dismissal... and most professional kitchens do not permit
glass in any form... it's only on foodtv where you see cutesy glass
items... many kitchens do not permit wine bottles.
max
2007-12-03 18:45:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cydrome Leader
Post by jmcquown
Post by Gregory Morrow
http://www.suntimes.com/lifestyles/health/677348,CST-NWS-ice02.article#
Hold the ice: What's in your glass might surprise you
COLD TRUTH | 'Someone's not washing their hands properly': 1 in 5
samples from restaurants, bars found to have high levels of bacteria
I don't understand this. Ice in a restaurant is is made by a machine. Ice
is place into glasses via an ice scoop. While I certainly believe too many
people don't wash their hands, I sincerely doubt they are grabbing ice with
their bare hands to fill glasses.
concept 1
ice machines are inherently filthy. They circulate water forever across a
plate or tray that's chilled.
Imagine a fish tank, but colder and with more hands going into it, and
less people cleaning it.
concept 2
a cup is the ice scoop is most situations. Even if there is an ice scoop,
the handle gets touched with a "hand" and then that gets tossed back onto
the bin.
And people are lazy and never clean stuff. Even those k-cup coffee
machines get fucking rank unless you strip them down. Soda fountains are
really bad.
Still, if you have an immune system, you should be good.
Y'know, if we don't get our MDA of FCB with our ice, we're going to
have to get it some other way...

... like tamales.


ice is nice.
--
The part of betatron @ earthlink . net was played by a garden gnome
Sqwertz
2007-12-03 02:59:11 UTC
Permalink
Everything about Chicago makes me wanna hurl.

-sw
Gregory Morrow
2007-12-03 04:46:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sqwertz
Everything about Chicago makes me wanna hurl.
Yer just a fragile pansy - ass, Steve...we've got *rats* bigger than
those wussy jackalopes you have down in Tejas...


--
Best
Greg
Sheldon
2007-12-03 04:52:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gregory Morrow
Post by Sqwertz
Everything about Chicago makes me wanna hurl.
Yer just a fragile pansy - ass, Steve...we've got *rats* bigger than
those wussy jackalopes you have down in Tejas...
.
NY rats carry switchblades and steal yer cheese.
kenji
2007-12-03 16:02:07 UTC
Permalink
In article
Post by Sheldon
Post by Gregory Morrow
Post by Sqwertz
Everything about Chicago makes me wanna hurl.
Yer just a fragile pansy - ass, Steve...we've got *rats* bigger than
those wussy jackalopes you have down in Tejas...
.
NY rats carry switchblades and steal yer cheese.
CHI rats own the cheese distribution, create small LLC's and funnel the
overcharging of cheese sales to trusted friends and relatives.
max
2007-12-03 18:41:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by kenji
In article
Post by Sheldon
Post by Gregory Morrow
Post by Sqwertz
Everything about Chicago makes me wanna hurl.
Yer just a fragile pansy - ass, Steve...we've got *rats* bigger than
those wussy jackalopes you have down in Tejas...
.
NY rats carry switchblades and steal yer cheese.
CHI rats own the cheese distribution, create small LLC's and funnel the
overcharging of cheese sales to trusted friends and relatives.
<golf clap>

.max
--
The part of betatron @ earthlink . net was played by a garden gnome
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